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maddawg · (This post was last modified: 01-15-2013 07:49 AM by Burnacid.)

Your RP name: Tony Montana

Defendant's RP name: Pietje Henk
Defendant's SteamID: Inferno IV

Date of Incident: 1/14/13
Time of Incident: 5:30
Time-zone for above time (UTC+/-): Eastern US

Please describe exactly what happened, from start to finish: I was an SBGF gangster. I was on main street. Another gangster starts punching a trader's (Lozzy Frost) microwave BOX, not the actual thing. After multiple times of asking him to stop, the trader shot him. I was standing behind the trader because I knew this would happen. So I started shooting the trader from behind. I circled to the left of the trader because he was turned around. I start back peddling to avoid being shot. He must've had a lot of health or something because he wouldn't die. I was firing the whole time while back peddling because a fiveseven has a lot of ammo. So when my clip's empty I run around the corner, reload, come back and try to kill him again. But the trader must've eaten food or something because once again he wouldn't die. All I know is I was then killed by cops.

I respawn, and all of a sudden in the chatbox, "Inferno IV warned maddawg457 for metagaming." I figured it was a mistake with the names and was like "Inferno, what?" And he's like "You metagamed" or something. So I'm like how the fuck did I metagame? He claimed that I was trying to steal the microwave or something and killing the trader was metagaming. I DID NOT metagame at all during this shootout.

Evidence/Additional Information: This is the same exact situation as last time. He warned me for a completely wrong reason, without even bringing me to talk first or anything. And then after I tried to tell him what happened in (OOC) he still didn't bring me or anything to talk. Instead, he tries to get the whole story over OOC, people started saying "Maddawg report abuse of Admin on the forums." I didn't metagame in any way, and was warned for it, just like I was warned for RDS when I really wasn't. Once again, weak display of admining skills.

Zinc · 01-14-2013, 11:51 PM

Was there for this, I was the one that told him to take it to the forums, and I also witnessed the weak admining skills. I did not see the thing play out, (at least, not to my knowledge, I think that I might have seen it play out, and I think that I couldve been the one to kill maddawg, I remember killing a gangster for shooting at me. [even though it was cross fire]) but I told inferno that he was allowed to attempt to kill the trader, because the trader just killed one of his own.

Over all, it is a false warn reason, and even if the warn was changed to a correct reason, there would have been nothing wrong with the situation in the first place.

maddawg · 01-15-2013, 12:04 AM

BTW inferno did not remove the warning.

And Zinc, did you knock me out twice to attempt to arrest me? But didn't get a chance and had to end up killing me? Because if you did then that was me. It could have been any gangster though. A lot of people got involved in the gunfight due to a lot of crossfire. Even civilians were shooting people. It was a crazy shootout. Cops, gangsters, civilians, and the trader were all involved somehow I think.

Inferno IV · 01-15-2013, 12:05 AM

So when you get an "unjust" warning you're making an admin abuse instead of a warning appeal?
Doesn't make any sense.

also (again) this is unnecessary:

(01-14-2013 11:12 PM)maddawg457 Wrote: Once again, weak display of admining skills.

but still here's my story:
I was walking through main street when I spot a crowd at a microwave holder.
Everyting was ok, everything seemed normal, there was no gunfire or whatever.
Then suddenly Tony Montana start shooting the trader (he was already standing in the crowd near the microwave).
Since everything seemed normal and Tony Montana got stunned by the cp (and not arrested, why I do not know) and then he ran away.
It seemed to me that his raid failed and he was running away
Seeming there is no way to see that the trader is actually owner of the microwave / microwave holder (since it was outside) and he suddenly started shooting, I thought it was meta-gaming because he couldn't knew that the trader was the owner.

After questioning him he said his story but couldn't remember the name of the gangster who he was with, even though it just happend. So his story didn't connect with my story and him not remembering the name of his fellow gangster was hazy, so I was suspicous.

Evidence/Additional Information:
- I was also trader at that time.
- We had a conversation over OOC, still counts as talking, I'm not forced / there is no rule to bring you to talk.
- As I said: I was asking advice of other staff members and they told me to leave it to be.

also:

(01-14-2013 11:12 PM)maddawg457 Wrote: Evidence/Additional Information: This is the same exact situation as last time. He warned me for a completely wrong reason, without even bringing me to talk first or anything. And then after I tried to tell him what happened in (OOC) he still didn't bring me or anything to talk. Instead, he tries to get the whole story over OOC, people started saying "Maddawg report abuse of Admin on the forums." I didn't metagame in any way, and was warned for it, just like I was warned for RDS when I really wasn't. Once again, weak display of admining skills.

No additional information at all and please make an warning appeal next time.

Zinc · (12-10-2012 11:15 PM)

(01-15-2013 12:04 AM)maddawg457 Wrote: BTW inferno did not remove the warning.

And Zinc, did you knock me out twice to attempt to arrest me? But didn't get a chance and had to end up killing me? Because if you did then that was me. It could have been any gangster though. A lot of people got involved in the gunfight due to a lot of crossfire. Even civilians were shooting people. It was a crazy shootout. Cops, gangsters, civilians, and the trader were all involved somehow I think.

You were knocked out twice, I killed you afterwards.

Yeah, it was you.

(01-15-2013 12:05 AM)Shadow Hurricane Wrote:
(01-14-2013 11:12 PM)maddawg457 Wrote: -snip-

No additional information at all and please make an warning appeal next time.

Also, it is not your place to decide what goes where. That is an EC's decision.

maddawg · 01-15-2013, 12:18 AM

(01-15-2013 12:05 AM)Shadow Hurricane Wrote: So when you get an "unjust" warning you're making an admin abuse instead of a warning appeal?
Doesn't make any sense.

also (again) this is unnecessary:

(01-14-2013 11:12 PM)maddawg457 Wrote: Once again, weak display of admining skills.

but still here's my story:
I was walking through main street when I spot a crowd at a microwave holder.
Everyting was ok, everything seemed normal, there was no gunfire or whatever.
Then suddenly Tony Montana start shooting the trader (he was already standing in the crowd near the microwave).
Since everything seemed normal and Tony Montana got stunned by the cp (and not arrested, why I do not know) and then he ran away.
It seemed to me that his raid failed and he was running away
Seeming there is no way to see that the trader is actually owner of the microwave / microwave holder (since it was outside) and he suddenly started shooting, I thought it was meta-gaming because he couldn't knew that the trader was the owner.

After questioning him he said his story but couldn't remember the name of the gangster who he was with, even though it just happend. So his story didn't connect with my story and him not remembering the name of his fellow gangster was hazy, so I was suspicous.

Evidence/Additional Information:
- I was also trader at that time.
- We had a conversation over OOC, still counts as talking, I'm not forced / there is no rule to bring you to talk.
- As I said: I was asking advice of other staff members and they told me to leave it to be.

also:

(01-14-2013 11:12 PM)maddawg457 Wrote: Evidence/Additional Information: This is the same exact situation as last time. He warned me for a completely wrong reason, without even bringing me to talk first or anything. And then after I tried to tell him what happened in (OOC) he still didn't bring me or anything to talk. Instead, he tries to get the whole story over OOC, people started saying "Maddawg report abuse of Admin on the forums." I didn't metagame in any way, and was warned for it, just like I was warned for RDS when I really wasn't. Once again, weak display of admining skills.

No additional information at all and please make an warning appeal next time.

I filed it as admin abuse because this is the second time you falsely warned me without saying anything. You don't just go around warning people on your own judgement without knowing the actual story. Get the goddamn story before you start handing out warnings. And don't say I was raiding his microwave either, that's bullshit. I obviously can't lockpick a microwave as a regular gangster.

And as to your story...

Everyone was standing at the microwave due to being injured in the firefight. They were buying food. I just came back from reloading my gun. I don't know why the trader wasn't prepared to be attacked again.

I know this was definitely when I came back from reloading because if it was the first time I tried to kill the trader, you would've seen the trader shoot my gangster. I shot the trader the instant he shot the gangster. I believe the cop that stunned me either didn't know how to arrest or was being shot at by someone else. Can't really remember. I actually was knocked out twice. And while knocked out all I know is I heard a shit load of gun fire.

And I couldn't remember my fellow gangster's name because I wasn't really "with" him, I was just there on main street, saw the gangster punching the box, and knew the trader was most likely going to shoot the gangster.

Inferno IV · 01-15-2013, 12:18 AM

(01-15-2013 12:08 AM)Zinc Wrote:
(01-15-2013 12:05 AM)Shadow Hurricane Wrote:
(01-14-2013 11:12 PM)maddawg457 Wrote: -snip-

No additional information at all and please make an warning appeal next time.

Also, it is not your place to decide what goes where. That is an EC's decision.

From the "WARNING APPEALS FAQ (READ OR YOUR THREAD WILL BE LOCKED & IGNORED!)"
(http://www.seriousroleplayinghell.com/sh...?tid=4247)

Drakehawke Wrote:Alright, so you want to get rid of a warning. You can appeal a warning if:
- You feel the warning was unjustified.
- You feel the warning was given to you by mistake.
- You are sincerely sorry for breaking the rules.

maddawg · 01-15-2013, 12:20 AM

I wasn't reporting the warning, I was reporting you for abuse of admin privileges. This is the second time you completely falsely warned the same person with no evidence/story.

Inferno IV · (This post was last modified: 01-15-2013 12:25 AM by Inferno IV.)

(01-15-2013 12:18 AM)maddawg457 Wrote: I filed it as admin abuse because this is the second time you falsely warned me without saying anything.

And it's also your second admin abuse report...

(01-15-2013 12:18 AM)maddawg457 Wrote: You don't just go around warning people on your own judgement without knowing the actual story. Get the goddamn story before you start handing out warnings. And don't say I was raiding his microwave either, that's bullshit. I obviously can't lockpick a microwave as a regular gangster.

1. Calm down.
2. Yes it is our judgement.
3. Wasn't I asking you for your story? I can always remove it if it seems unjust.
4. you're in a gang, the mobboss could've let you secure the place (because if the trader dies, he can't interfere because of NLR)

I'm just gonna wait for an EC to pick this up, because this isn't getting anywhere.

maddawg · 01-15-2013, 12:30 AM

2. Yes it is our judgement.

Yea, it's your judgement after you get the story and understand the situation. You don't just go "hmm, I think maddawg was metagaming. I'm not really sure but he probably was. INSTA-WARN!"

3. Wasn't I asking you for your story? I can always remove it if it seems unjust.

Do the opposite, get the story first, then warn if it seems acceptable. it doesn't make sense to warn without even asking them to explain their self. One day your going to accidentally permaban someone with a bullshit warning.

SecretAgentMan · 01-15-2013, 02:06 AM

My read on this: Maddawg was RPing correctly, and was avenging his brother in arms. He had to take cover to reload, because his target failed to cease living. He then returned and opened fire once again, only to be brought down by the Civil Protection. No where in this entire situation were there any kind of metagame, considering that he watched his fellow gang member get shot to death.

maddawg · 01-15-2013, 02:29 AM

(01-15-2013 02:06 AM)SecretAgentMan Wrote: My read on this: Maddawg was RPing correctly, and was avenging his brother in arms. He had to take cover to reload, because his target failed to cease living. He then returned and opened fire once again, only to be brought down by the Civil Protection. No where in this entire situation were there any kind of metagame, considering that he watched his fellow gang member get shot to death.

Spot on.

Adrian Sheppard · 01-15-2013, 05:08 AM

Since I wasn't a witness to the situation, I can't and won't render any sort of judgement, but I'll say my opinion on the matter based off the information presented here. If Inferno rendered a warning unto Maddawg without any sort of communication, it would seem a little funny. Unless a severe breaking or blatantly obvious disregard for the rules had elapsed, a conversation or talk should at least be had. For instance Inferno, if you did think he was Metagaming, you should've gone to him and asked him why he did such, and see his views on it. If there was further confusion, poll whatever staff are on the server for assistance or referencing in rendering a punishment if necessary or an explanation. Often times I find it a simple talk with the player will resolve the situation. Either they'll learn the rules and apologize, moving on or they'll not give a single shit and that's when you use your powers in the appropriate manner. I'm not taking sides or saying someone was right or wrong, just a friendlier approach to a situation to prevent this sort of thing from happening, I never like to see any sort of friction between staff or players, but it's bound to happen, just make sure to leave any animosity behind once the matter is settled!

Burnacid · 01-15-2013, 07:49 AM

He is allowed to file a abuse report if he feels to be threated wrongly.
Abuse reports also removed warnings when there wasn't need for a warning.

Claimed, please wait for getting logs

Inferno IV · 01-15-2013, 08:28 AM

Burnacid · 01-15-2013, 09:00 AM

Code:

Mon Jan 14 22:25:13    kill        Mister Tull (STEAM_0:1:49959494) was killed by Lozzy Frost (STEAM_0:0:43877403), weapon: weapon_pist_fiveseven

Mon Jan 14 22:25:33    misc        Chad Kadlavor (STEAM_0:1:31517320) knocked Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917) unconcious.

Mon Jan 14 22:25:50    kill        Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917) was killed by John Garrison (STEAM_0:0:22209931), weapon: weapon_rif_galil

Mon Jan 14 22:25:58    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): holy shit

Mon Jan 14 22:26:01    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): that was crazy

Mon Jan 14 22:26:08    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): what the fuck just happened hah

Mon Jan 14 22:26:25            Pietje Henk (STEAM_0:0:30855410) warned Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917) for Metagaming.

Mon Jan 14 22:26:32    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): what?

Mon Jan 14 22:26:41    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): inferno what?

Mon Jan 14 22:26:46    chat        [OOC] Pietje Henk (STEAM_0:0:30855410): metagaming

Mon Jan 14 22:26:52    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): what did I metagame?

Mon Jan 14 22:26:58    chat        [OOC] Pietje Henk (STEAM_0:0:30855410): shooting the trader

Mon Jan 14 22:27:11    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): no I shot him because he shot my gangster

Mon Jan 14 22:27:23    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): i literally saw him

Mon Jan 14 22:27:26    chat        [OOC] Pietje Henk (STEAM_0:0:30855410): didn't seem like it

Mon Jan 14 22:27:30    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): I was standing behind him as he did it

Mon Jan 14 22:27:43    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): I was standing behind him

Mon Jan 14 22:27:55    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): he shot my gangster for punching his microwave box

Mon Jan 14 22:28:03    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): so i shot the trader but didnt kill him

Mon Jan 14 22:28:12    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): ran around the corner to reload

Mon Jan 14 22:28:13    chat        [OOC] Pietje Henk (STEAM_0:0:30855410): and who was the gangster?

Mon Jan 14 22:28:17    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): came back and shot him again

Mon Jan 14 22:28:32    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): still didnt get him

Mon Jan 14 22:28:41    chat        [OOC] Pietje Henk (STEAM_0:0:30855410): who was that gangster?

Mon Jan 14 22:28:45    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): so what part did i metagame at

Mon Jan 14 22:28:50    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): and wait

Mon Jan 14 22:29:03    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): who was punching the traders microwave box?

Mon Jan 14 22:29:09    chat        [GROUP][SBGF] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): who was it

Mon Jan 14 22:29:14    chat        [GROUP][SBGF] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): i need to know

Mon Jan 14 22:29:17    chat        [OOC] Pietje Henk (STEAM_0:0:30855410): i'm  asking you who was punching it

Mon Jan 14 22:29:34    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): i dont remember his name

Mon Jan 14 22:29:39    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): im trying to find out

Mon Jan 14 22:29:43    chat        [OOC] Pietje Henk (STEAM_0:0:30855410): i'll wait

Mon Jan 14 22:29:48    chat        [GROUP][SBGF] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): who was punching the fucking box

Mon Jan 14 22:29:59    chat        [GROUP][SBGF] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): and got killed by the trader 

Mon Jan 14 22:30:05    chat        [STAFF] Pietje Henk (STEAM_0:0:30855410): me and maddawg arent arguing about that

Mon Jan 14 22:30:19    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): whoever it was wont tell me

Mon Jan 14 22:30:37    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): i dont see what part about that is metagaming at all

Mon Jan 14 22:30:38    chat        [OOC] Pietje Henk (STEAM_0:0:30855410): did he die?

Mon Jan 14 22:30:47    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): the gangster? or the trader?

Mon Jan 14 22:30:52    chat        [OOC] Pietje Henk (STEAM_0:0:30855410): gangster

Mon Jan 14 22:31:01    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): the trader killed the gangster, so i attempted to kill the trader

Mon Jan 14 22:31:13    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): he mustve had a lot of health though, from food

Mon Jan 14 22:32:09    chat        [OOC] Tony Montana (STEAM_0:1:25397917): the gangster was killed by lozzy frost

Don't pull me is as evidence. I've told you on teamspeak that i was busy with Ivef who i just promoted to mod. What you should have done is ask Tony Montana's story. After you could have asked frost whether she killed a gangster punshing. She is a SA, she could have helped.

Truth of the story is that you haven't questioned anyone BEFORE getting out the warning. Guessing is not part of evidence in our job as staff!
The thing you said on Teamspeak is you were warned for the same incident (killing a random trader near a microwave) that is metagaming. But this isn't the logs show she killed a gangster.

So warning will be removed. Shadow Hurricane will be smacked in the face to change his way of moderating the server. Your job is not to get everyone banned but to teach players what is right or wrong. If you had done that in this case then you whould have spoken to him in the first place. Repeating this behavior of modding could result in warnings or demotion.