[Ryladine] Serious Rule Breach: Sonny (STEAM_0:0:35808568)

[Your Stalker]

Your RP Name: Smokey Bluntson

Their RP Name: Sonny
Their SteamID: STEAM_0:0:35808568

Date of Incident: February 12, 2013
Time of Incident: 03:30
Time-zone: GMT -5.0

Please explain exactly what happened from start to finish:
In my many years of Roleplaying on this server, and others un-named, I have come across many admins. Many of which Disgrace and Abuse the title given to them by acts of greed, dishonesty, and lazy-ness. Fortunately our server is blessed with a staff of many well educated and well-rounded individuals. The aforementioned despicable actions seldom occur on our server but I have noticed that Sonny has been a huge perpetrator of these actions. It began as a thief; I was basing with cms21023 and he happened to become a thief too so we decided to build a loot stashing area. Out of nowhere Sonny comes in, tells us we can’t base, then he teleports me to spawn for no reason and freezes cms for an extended period of time. I had to walk all the way back to our base only to find it being raided by people while I was returning (Kobe Bryant) and I had acquired a lot of police attention due to this. After, I became a CP and did several arrests/kills on Sonny and he started saying things like im going to kill you, and im going to come after you. I could tell he was getting angry due to his loss of money. He began job abusing with a thief as a gundealer and mobboss (Kobe Bryant) by using him to lure me into an area to have me killed. These kids both called me words such as “Cunt” and used words like “Fuckin” “asshole” “bullshit” and to me this is very uncharacteristic of an admin, who just the other day posted stuff about how bad exl is in another thread. I never cursed at them first, they always came at me for using perfectly good RP and I was within all server and town laws. Then sonny began using excuses to justify having a gun such as “ in America it is your God given right to bear arms” and he even said that even though the law says its illegal, he can still have one because he lives in America, and that means he has to roleplay with Americas laws. All of this is in the logs and was said in game chat. I would like to keep this brief but if needed I can elaborate further on details but out of all this I just really wanted to express my dis-satisfaction with the actions and comments of your admin sonny, it was absolutely unreflective and offensive to everything I have come to love in the SRH and the good staff I know and love.

Additional Evidence:
Logs, witness cms21023

[Sonny]

OK, so where to begin. First off I would like to state that I never called you a cunt, nor did I use a gun dealer, mob boss, or thief to lure you out to be killed. I did use Kobe one time to lure you out because he was a gangster and I SBGF Mob Boss. However that is allowed. Second, I said I as an American have the incoherent right to bare arms, even if laws outlaw that it is still my right and I will defend it. There for I would continue buying guns and so on. The only time I told you I was going to kill you was when I got arrested, and I do that to just about every CP that comes to me after they arrest me, and I usually attempt to or succeed in killing them after arrest anyways. Third, I spawned you and who ever you were basing with to separate you and if I kept him frozen it wasn't on purpose. Lastly, I don't care about my money in game, I often give away free guns and spend thousands upon trips to the gun store. I have $220,000+ and I think that is more than enough. I also often over pay for guns, and give generous tips. Ask any gun dealer, I usually round up the next hundred or just give them a thousand for a pistol and ammo. I don't care about money, so I'm not going to get that upset after purchasing guns. If that were the case, don't you think I would have stopped coming back to the gun dealer that you were watching and sniping customers from a far because they were buying guns? I hope this clears everything up.

[Your Stalker]

To address the Cunt statement, well if you read i said both you and Kobe used foul language, and it was Kobe who called me a cunt, Secondly you are clearly mistaken and I would like the EC to single this detail out, Kobe was NOT a gangster when they worked together on that, I will not comment further on that detail until it is proven or dis proven in the logs.
You are also an idiot, you DO NOT have a right just because you are an American to own arms, the Default rules clearly state what your rights are and you are clearly falling outside of them. You clearly were upset when i killed you for having guns, which is allowed because i was cp, because you wouldnt have set out kobe to lure me into your trap and even if it wasnt the money, you were still butthurt the entire night and actually annoying with the way you composed yourself, as a matter of fact everytime we jailed you, you would use that time to go respond to admin situations which i think is bullshit because its not fair that admins dont have to sit through a sentence like we do

[Sonny]

Well when your like the only admin on, or there are only 2, you kind of have to answer the RDM reports, prop block, NLR, and all that or it doesn't get dealt with. 5 minutes of sitting gives the impression we don't care, as well as enough time for someone to leave. Calling me an idiot is just fine, however I can prove to you and who ever claims this that it is an incoherent right, regardless of laws, because I as an American roleplaying online roleplay in accordance to what I know as an every day life, to the extent that you can in an online RP game of course. None the less I have significant proof that it's an incoherent right to bare arms in the United States of America, as well as my states Constitution. So if you want to call me an idiot thats fine, but I have more than enough proof to show that I am correct and your perception of me being "an idiot" is incorrect.

[Your Stalker]

Find one instance where they use that then genius.

[Sonny]

2nd Amendment To The Unites States of America's Constitution -A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

21st Amendment To The Pennsylvania Constitution - The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.

If you can't figure it out from that much, I can break it down for your incompetent brain to understand.

[Your Stalker]

break it down then cuz i cant see it

[Sonny]

(02-10-2013 10:50 AM)Sonny Wrote:  2nd Amendment To The Unites States of America's Constitution -A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Ok lets pick this apart. The United States of America was founded with the Militia's to protect it after the revolutionary war because we had no Army or branch of government to defend our country. The NRA was then formed to teach Militiamen how to use rifles and weapons. The 2nd amendment was made to ensure that our rights were not to be infringed upon again by another tyrant like Brittan. So, that is where "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the rights of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." comes from. That is why it can not be outlawed. And even if it is, it's still our right because they would have to amend the constitution of the United States of America to regulate firearms.

(02-10-2013 10:50 AM)Sonny Wrote:  21st Amendment To The Pennsylvania Constitution - The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.

The right to bear arms is protected not only the United States of America's constitution, but also the Pennsylvania constitution, in which states "The Right of the citizen" which AGAIN states I have the right to bear arms, "in defense of themselves" which is why I had the gun in the first place "and the State" you infringing upon our freedoms makes it an attack on the peoples rights, which in turn is attack the "State" because that law that you are hiding behind is presented by the "State" officials. So that official, being Drake, would be a tyrant infringing upon all of our rights.

In conclusion, I think this adequately answers your question, and if you still don't understand you are at a loss, and I can only hope who ever handles this is smart enough to understand it, which I have good faith in them understanding it fully before making a decision.

[Your Stalker]

Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 and firearm owners protection act of 1968 actually bans every and all automatic weapons in all 50 states you retarded shit. I saw an sg. 550 at cabelas last week in hamburg pa and the guys told me that they are illegal in your state as well. And idk why i am humoring u being that this is an rp server not a fucking pensylvania server. Your dumb as fuck and im done till this is claimed

[Sonny]

(02-10-2013 11:25 AM)Your Stalker Wrote:  Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 and firearm owners protection act of 1968 actually bans every and all automatic weapons in all 50 states you retarded shit. I saw an sg. 550 at cabelas last week in hamburg pa and the guys told me that they are illegal in your state as well. And idk why i am humoring u being that this is an rp server not a fucking pensylvania server. Your dumb as fuck and im done till this is claimed

In Pennsylvania, you need to pay a $200 tax for the Class 3 stamp which is for items such as fully automatic firearms, short barreled rifles, and so on and so forth. I deal with this kind of stuff all the time, and please refrain from the name calling.

Direct quote, not that I need one but just to prove to you I am right.

In Pennsylvania you can own the following items that are regulated the the National Firearms Act

Machine Guns
Silencers
Any Other Weapon (AOW)
Destructive Devices (DD)
Short Barreled Shotguns (SBS)
Short Barreled Rifles (SBR)

In Pennsylvania you cannot own the following NFA restricted items.

None
_________________________

If you would like I can quote the federal laws and the title 18 sections and so on down the line until you feel I have fully fulfilled my end of this debate.

I only know what it is like here, so I roleplay with this mentality. Also, fully autos are not illegal in all 50 states. The Class 3 thing is pretty how it is everywhere.

[Spy/-/guy]

*I am sorry I am posting here because the EC probably want/need to post this them selfs, but I wanted to reply because it would be a bit faster.*

However, stock laws are laws. You can roleplay as an African, or an American , but still, the stock laws apply IF quote:
"There is no mayor, the mayor didn't put up laws, or if he didn't put laws that talk about these ones."
Nothing bigger than a pistol is one of the (6 I believe) stock laws, and the CP's can, and must, enforce the laws.

[Sonny]

(02-10-2013 11:44 AM)Spy/-/guy Wrote:  *I am sorry I am posting here because the EC probably want/need to post this them selfs, but I wanted to reply because it would be a bit faster.*

However, stock laws are laws. You can roleplay as an African, or an American , but still, the stock laws apply IF quote:
"There is no mayor, the mayor didn't put up laws, or if he didn't put laws that talk about these ones."
Nothing bigger than a pistol is one of the (6 I believe) stock laws, and the CP's can, and must, enforce the laws.

The laws are not in question.

[Ryladine]

First, let me ask WHAT you are reporting? You EXL? RDM? You have plenty of words but they aren't saying much.

Second. DO NOT DERAIL AN ABUSE REPORT. EITHER OF YOU.

Drop the amendment shit, it doesn't matter here except for roleplay, and as far as I can see has NO BEARING on his report at all.
Explain what you are reporting, why, and give details in an orderly manner without the bullshit to our ego's.



This has no bearing on an abuse report at all, refrain from posting things like it in abuse reports in the future.

Stalker Wrote:In my many years of Roleplaying on this server, and others un-named, I have come across many admins. Many of which Disgrace and Abuse the title given to them by acts of greed, dishonesty, and lazy-ness. Fortunately our server is blessed with a staff of many well educated and well-rounded individuals. The aforementioned despicable actions seldom occur on our server but I have noticed that Sonny has been a huge perpetrator of these actions.

Stalker Wrote:I just really wanted to express my dis-satisfaction with the actions and comments of your admin sonny, it was absolutely unreflective and offensive to everything I have come to love in the SRH and the good staff I know and love.

[Your Stalker]

How is this not a rule break/abuse report? Its a detailed chronolog of several infractions and morally unbacceptable (in my opinion) behaviors commited by an admin on your servers. Where else could i post somthing like this, no admins answered us when we tried to report and i want people to know what sonny was doing so he could be accountable for his actions.

---

And to be clear, I am reporting him and kobe for exl for both in game chat and verbal, admin abuse for separating me and cms which caused us to lose our base to raiders, job abuse for using a thief to lure me into a trap, no clipping to escape prison sentence, rdm for shooting me when we were both gun dealers, and admin abuse for teleporting me away to spawn even tho thieves are allowed to base. And a question for you, if i am arrested can i do revenge killings on any cop who asks me for bail?

[Sonny]

(02-10-2013 05:57 PM)Your Stalker Wrote:  How is this not a rule break/abuse report? Its a detailed chronolog of several infractions and morally unbacceptable (in my opinion) behaviors commited by an admin on your servers. Where else could i post somthing like this, no admins answered us when we tried to report and i want people to know what sonny was doing so he could be accountable for his actions.

---

And to be clear, I am reporting him and kobe for exl for both in game chat and verbal, admin abuse for separating me and cms which caused us to lose our base to raiders, job abuse for using a thief to lure me into a trap, no clipping to escape prison sentence, rdm for shooting me when we were both gun dealers, and admin abuse for teleporting me away to spawn even tho thieves are allowed to base. And a question for you, if i am arrested can i do revenge killings on any cop who asks me for bail?

EXL wasn't violated because I used it with in RP tolerance. I could have warned you for job abuse, but instead I gave you a verbal warning and separated the two of you. I only left the jail to take care of admin reports which I wouldn't normally do, but no one else was responding to them, and/or I was the only admin on at the time. I don't recall when I shot you when we were both gun dealers, if you could please describe that one I'd be better off to explain. You repeated the same teleporting thing twice. No, it doesn't really give you a reason to kill ANY CP, however CP's involved in the arrest/jailing process you may revenge kill.

[Ryladine]

(02-10-2013 05:57 PM)Your Stalker Wrote:  How is this not a rule break/abuse report? Its a detailed chronolog of several infractions and morally unbacceptable (in my opinion) behaviors commited by an admin on your servers. Where else could i post somthing like this, no admins answered us when we tried to report and i want people to know what sonny was doing so he could be accountable for his actions.

---

And to be clear, I am reporting him and kobe for exl for both in game chat and verbal, admin abuse for separating me and cms which caused us to lose our base to raiders, job abuse for using a thief to lure me into a trap, no clipping to escape prison sentence, rdm for shooting me when we were both gun dealers, and admin abuse for teleporting me away to spawn even tho thieves are allowed to base. And a question for you, if i am arrested can i do revenge killings on any cop who asks me for bail?

No, in fact you weren't clear at all about what you were reporting. You whined and moaned and mentioned several events without any information at all to help me find them. Now, I still don't see you giving evidence, OR anything to help me FIND evidence, you want me to dig through an unknown amount of logs without even a date or a time, you're welcome to but I don't plan to do so.

Explain the EXL, what did he say to make it exl? (Note, calling you names a couple of times is NOT exl.)

Admins leave prison to do their jobs, I will not punish any admin for doing so, that part will be dropped.

You WERE job abusing, the teleport to spawn was valid. Thieves are not allowed to base together, and he confirmed that with our owner.

No, you cannot revenge kill every cop who tries to give bail, you can only revenge kill cp's you have a roleplay reason to kill.

Moral's aren't an issue if the admin is doing their job and not abusing their powers, while we maintain a certain level of discipline and expect our admins to behave in a mature manner their morals are not any of our concerns so long as they do not conflict with them doing their job.

He can USE anyone he wants to lure you into a trap, its not against the rules. If he wanted to, he could bribe a CP to lead you into a trap, it doesn't matter.

You've not provided ANY evidence for the rdm, and I have no idea who kobe is still, nor do I have his steamID.


So, what are you trying to do with this report exactly? So far about half of its been invalid or you haven't provided any evidence or a way for me to get evidence.

Saying "logs" can't prove everything, RDM isn't "logged" EXL is only "logged" if its in the chat in its entirety, and a single time for a large mass of events isn't enough. With what you've given me I'll have to go through thousands of lines of logs trying to find to events you're talking about, without even knowing for certain what I'm looking for.

I need references, I need something to tell me what kill I'm looking for, I need something to tell me the time the EXL occurred so I know where to be looking, else I can't even know its directed at you, what do you want me to do here? You've said he's done alot but apparently you think we're omnipotent gods that can go through lines of text that say a tiny bit and expect me to know exactly whats going on without knowing when/where I'm looking or even any reference as to where I should be looking beyond a single time that may be before, after, or in the middle of everything you've reported?

[Bee Onette]

Regarding the thieves basing together:

(02-10-2013 09:57 AM)troll Wrote:  I got warned for by Sonny, after talking to Drake it isn't a new rule... this has always been the case he says.

I feel there's a lot of confusion about this thief thing, but I'm just throwing this in here since it's been so back and forth recently. This is the last update I've heard of it after the initial wave of complaints. Either way, it wasn't written down anywhere that I could find nor has it ever been applied before this to most of the members. I've had every staff member I've asked tell me that they're allowed to base together but not raid together, and I've seen it done by everyone.

So my relevant opinion on this is that before we start demoting or warning for Job Abuse, perhaps there needs to be some modifications to the rules to properly express the thief rule, considering every other class can base with classmates. Give the members some time to transition, as in don't be so harsh on them when the rule's first applied because they may not have noticed the change.

[Ryladine]

The thing is, he wasn't harsh. He said no, and spawned one of the thieves, that's a very mild way to deal with it.

[Sonny]

Site F4 Rule Menu, subsection Job Abuse paragraph 4 I believe states "Some jobs may not work or base together, read job descriptions" or something to that effect. This has never even been allowed, and I don't know where these staff members are getting it from.

Open SpoilerSpoiler:

|M-SG| Sonny: has it ever been permitted to base together as thieves
Drakehawke: no
|M-SG| Sonny: because everyone is shitting fire over it
|M-SG| Sonny: THANK YOU

[Bee Onette]

(02-10-2013 11:25 PM)Sonny Wrote:  Site F4 Rule Menu, subsection Job Abuse paragraph 4 I believe states "Some jobs may not work or base together, read job descriptions" or something to that effect. This has never even been allowed, and I don't know where these staff members are getting it from.

Open SpoilerSpoiler:

|M-SG| Sonny: has it ever been permitted to base together as thieves
Drakehawke: no
|M-SG| Sonny: because everyone is shitting fire over it
|M-SG| Sonny: THANK YOU

I'm not saying you're wrong man, I'm just stating that I've always heard the opposite. As have many others- I've seen multiple posts from different members agreeing with this. EDIT: I checked with the staff when I started playing thief just to be sure (because I knew they couldn't raid together and expected they couldn't base together as well) but was told that it was not the case, which is why I even posted here. It's just a miscommunication on a very large scale.